Common Sense & Solutions

How do we move from "quick fixes" to sustainable, long-term impact? In this essential episode, Karen Philip is joined by the world-renowned Dr. Sharilyn Hale to explore the strategic side of social change. We’re peeling back the layers on what it really takes to build an organization that lasts.

We’re moving beyond the "preaching" about high-level theory to look at the practical, common-sense solutions required to scale your mission. Dr. Hale shares her extensive expertise on philanthropy and governance, offering a roadmap for leaders who want to ensure their organizations aren't just surviving, but thriving for generations to come.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The Architecture of Impact: Designing strategies that prioritize long-term viability over short-term visibility.
• Sustainable Growth: How to scale your organization's reach without compromising its core values or burning out your team.
• Unlocking Philanthropy: Understanding the mindset of modern donors and how to build authentic, lasting partnerships.
• Governance as a Tool: Why strong leadership structures are a common-sense necessity for doing good better.

Whether you are a nonprofit founder, a board member, or a donor looking to invest more strategically, Dr. Hale’s insights provide a masterclass in building for the future.

About Our Guest: Dr. Sharilyn Hale is a leading expert in philanthropy, governance, and organizational strategy. With a global perspective and a heart for effective social change, she helps leaders navigate the complexities of sustainable growth and impact.

Connect with Sharilyn:

• Dr. Sharilyn Hale, C.Dir | LinkedIn
• https://www.watermarkpc.com/

Connect with The Doing Good Podcast:

• Website: www.kainoscaribbean.com
• Instagram: @kainos.caribbean
• LinkedIn: Kainos Caribbean

Subscribe & Review: If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Your feedback helps us reach more do-gooders across the globe!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I'm Karen Phillips, a passionate advocate for doing good. I always knew I was gonna have a career helping people, but I wasn't sure how. I've met some amazing people who seem to understand the what and the how of doing good. We often hear about their work, but who are they? I decided to have a space where they could share about their work and common sense steps to doing good. Hi, welcome. You're tuned in to Common Sense Steps to Doing Good. I'm your host, Karen Phillip, and today we have a special guest with us, Shari Lynn Hale, who's going to share some incredible insights and how she's been doing good in her corner of the wheel. Be inspired as we uncovered some common sense steps to making a real difference. Welcome, Shari Lynn. Thank you. I'm so happy that you're here with us today. Be free to tell us more about who you are for those who don't know.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Yeah, well, I want to just comment how beautiful we both look this morning in the in our pink. Which was not coordinated at all. But I'm very happy to be with you here today. And so I'm Sherilyn Hale. I have a consulting business called Watermark Philanthropic Council. I'm based in Toronto, and so I work with um generous people, families to support them in their giving and their engagement in the community. And I work with families across Canada, but also across the Caribbean. I spent some time growing up in Barbados, so that's my it's my second home, but it's also my heart's home. I also done some academic research on philanthropy in the Caribbean, which has informed my thinking and my work, and I hope it has been a great resource for others. I do have an academic hat that I wear, so I'm a practitioner but also an academic. I earned my doctorate degree a few years ago with a focus on governance and philanthropy. And so governance is also a key pillar of work in uh in my business on the consulting side, and I teach governance and leadership uh at Carleton University, which is in Ottawa, in Canada's only graduate degree program in philanthropy and nonprofit leadership. Uh so I'm I'm coming to our conversation today uh wearing a couple of different hats uh and and uh with one foot in uh Canada um and the other foot uh firmly in the Caribbean region.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yes, definitely. And I have benefited from some of your research, um your last report about the philanthropic giving in the Caribbean. That was quite insightful. But I want to know what ignited your passion for doing good.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Life stories are very interesting when you're looking backwards. Sometimes when you're in the moment, you make choices and decisions, and you don't always understand uh you know where those choices are coming from. But what I can share with you is uh my first job, my first paid professional role um here in Canada was as a fundraiser. I was a professional fundraiser. Uh, and it was just my first job uh after university. And um uh that led to an almost 20-year career working with uh a range of charities uh in Canada, um, doing really wonderful, important work. Um and I, you know, I don't I don't know why that was my first job, although um I came from a family of givers and helpers. And so in hindsight, when I when I think about my journey and you know where I am today and how did I get here, um, I I do think it's deeply informed by the seeds that were planted in me uh by my parents in particular, um, who had a real uh heart for people, for service, uh, for sharing, for giving. Uh, and and I, you know, that couldn't help inform me and how I viewed the world and perhaps my my little place uh in the world. Um, but that that uh time uh working in the charitable community in Canada um was really formative in that I both got to understand the charitable landscape, what it looks like in Canada, how charities really operate, the stresses that um are just part of the deal as a charity, um, but also working with and through others. So working with volunteers, working with boards, um working with CEOs, um, reporting to boards. Um uh you know, change never happens in a vacuum. Uh, and no one person is responsible for change. It always requires working alongside others, and that's why leadership uh is such an important theme in the social sector, in the charitable sector, um, because we we have to be able to do things together. And I think that's one of the uh biggest lessons for me as I think about um my career uh over the years.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

So I want you to punch your academic heart a bit and just explain the difference in the type of resource mobilization. So not because in the Caribbean sector, we don't necessarily have fundraisers as much as we have grant writers. So if you could explain to us the difference from where you started to where you are now and what what that is.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

Yeah. Um so as a as a fundraiser, um, you know, I would lead uh programs uh that we would call them they were comprehensive. So that would include a range of revenue streams, both individual donors, private foundations, um uh institutional uh funders. Um often in the Canadian context, government uh funding uh is certainly part of the the overall revenue model for charities. Um that sits outside the fundraising department as such. Um uh and typically it is a for many charities in Canada, it is a very large uh piece of the pie. Um uh but on the on the fundraising side uh it would could include events, um it could include uh grants, uh grant writing, uh certainly to foundations and and larger institutional funders, but also individual donors. Um and I and I know that that is, I know from my experience uh in the Caribbean that that's perhaps a less um a less tapped uh resource, um, much more focused on corporate donors, for example, which we have here in Canada as well, but it tends to be a much smaller percentage of the overall. If you if you look at the the charitable dollars that are given each year, corporate dollars are actually the a smaller amount. Um, but so in a comprehensive um uh fundraising program, you would have multiple streams of of revenue. So to contrast that to my work today, uh today I work primarily with people who are giving money away. So they would they might have a private foundation um or give through some other structures, and I um support them in helping to identify what type of support they want to give, where they want to give it, how they want to give it, um, as well as you know how to how to engage their family, uh, how to be effective in their philanthropy, uh, what things to to strive for in terms of of impact, and how to be a how to be a great philanthropist. Um so that's that's uh where I focus more of my time now. But they're both they're two sides of the same coin, right? Um that relationship uh between um uh the the needs in in charities and and uh fundraisers or even executive directors who are seeking resources uh to be able to fulfill mission, and then those who can provide those resources. Um it's a really important uh relationship. And um and so having having worked on both sides of the coin, it's an interesting experience because both um both experiences inform the other.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yes, definitely. And so moving from one side of the coin to the other side of the coin, how how would you say your experiences shaped your approach to doing good and working in the social development sector?

SPEAKER_01 9:47

I would say I've I've learned a lot over the years. I mean, one might expect that if you're doing something for a long time, right? You you hope to learn a few things. Um I've been working in the in the charity space, philanthropy space for over 30 years. Um and I think some of the key takeaways for me that are just as relevant uh in the Caribbean region as they are in Canada, as they are in the US, as they are in Kenya, uh, where I've done teaching, uh, where in Europe and everywhere in the world, um change happens because people come together uh and they want to make things possible. And I and I also believe uh people are inherently generous um and they they want to they want to mobilize and and philanthropy and and charitable engagement and volunteering, those are ways that um we are able to strengthen our societies, strengthen our communities, um, and fulfill important objectives, things that make our lives better, safer, more beautiful. Um right, and that's and that's what has really inspired me, I think, my whole career uh working in the in the space to um be able to see things actually happen. Um you know, see new projects being launched, new buildings being built, uh, laws being changed that actually have uh a positive impact on the lives of people who might be vulnerable. Um you know, these things happen because people come together and and you know want to make a difference. And uh and it happens right across the Caribbean region, uh, just as it happens in other parts of the world. So I think that's something that uh has allowed me to put a flag in in the sand um for for this being where I want to work and the type type of work that I I want to be doing because it matters and it makes a difference.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I think that's really beautiful. Like it sounds like if you still have a lot of hope in humanity and the collective good. And that is something sometimes I struggle with. So like I used to watch a lot of documentaries. Everybody, if they ask me what I'm watching, I'm like, so I just finished this documentary. But I find that change is so slow and seems not to be happening. It seems like if the same issues are reoccurring just in different timelines, but you're you're bringing like a breath of fresh air to me, being like, no, change is possible. Sometimes we don't have to look at the big picture, but if we look on the individual level, we can find the hope and the the fate that change could happen. And that's like one of my struggles. Like, because I work remotely or I don't necessarily implement the projects myself. I'm behind the computer, I'm tracking your reports, I'm tracking the paperwork. If I don't go to the feel and see the work that's being done, it's very hard. It's very easy to become disillusioned and not realize that persons are doing are doing what they could do and the best at it. Um and so besides not only having to go in the field, I think also like just staying in touch and hearing the stories of the change is like one of the ways that I cope with the what feels like a disconnect at time between the change that we want to see in the world and and what's actually happening now. And I also know that sometimes because change is happening in your in so slow but at quick at the same time that it's easy to feel as if we're not doing anything. Because like if you're talking about laws changing, laws don't change overnight, correct? That is an entire process that started way, um, it takes long for laws to change. So, what is like some of your coping mechanisms or resistance mechanisms that kind of burns out feeling, that feeling like change is not gonna come now?

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Like, yeah. I, you know, I think I think our space, um, and we have a terminology problem uh in our space. Like what is the space? Is it social development? Is it the charitable sector? Is it the third sector? Is it civil society? Umprofit sector. Nonprofit sector. Um uh I think it's an inherently hopeful space. Because otherwise, why are you there? Right? Fundamentally, um it's hopeful because you see, you see something that could be better, something that could be different, something that can be um more uplifting, um uh and and that needs attention and focus. Um so coping mechanisms, yeah, it can be demoralizing. There's a um a wonderful quote. I can't remember um where it came from, but it was someone very clever that said, nothing worth doing can be completed in a lifetime.

unknown 15:38

Right?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

And so I think sometimes we can get we can get um kind of overwhelmed uh about the the the state of affairs, whatever our particular focus may be. Um we need to have a longer horizon um and sometimes some thick skin. Uh, I think we've also seen um uh in recent years that change is not always a straight line in one direction. Um right, and so uh you you make some incremental change and you may be moved back through all kinds of um uh circumstances. You know, we went through a pandemic. That that a lot of charitable organizations lost ground as a result of pandemic. It could be political change, it could be um, you know, change on on uh lots of levels. And so um, you know, that that slow ebb and flow, ebb and flow, um, I think is is a a case for always just regirding ourselves, um, that uh that we we can't stop. Um and we have to always be clear where are we going? What is our mission? What is the ultimate objective uh of this work? Um without that clarity of purpose, I think it's really easy um to lose ourselves. Um and and for organizations, without that clarity of purpose, it becomes really hard to be well governed, to be well managed, to engage potential volunteers, and to engage donors. Um we we often say without without money, there's no mission, right? And so to be able to fulfill mission, you need money. Um and and so there's a an important relationship uh there. So um inherently hopeful. Um uh and things don't always uh happen in a in a straight line, in a single trajectory, uh, but we keep at it because we believe it's important. Um and always being grounded in that sense of mission and purpose um, I think is uh is is one of the biggest coping mechanisms to not lose uh track. We often talk about mission um in the charitable. And sometimes we forget to talk about vision.

SPEAKER_02 18:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Right? Um, vision being what is the ultimate end state um for what we want the world to look like if we fulfill our mission? Um and so so both can be equally motivating. Um, and in my work with philanthropists and people who are generous and want to be uh active agents of change as well, we talk a lot about uh values, mission, and vision, because that becomes the real framework for how they think about uh deploying their resources.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

That is like so much food for thought. And I feel like you're the third person for the year to bring back the point of your mission. There's a fundraiser in the stage, Floyd Jones. He said, Your alignment determines your assignment, and that has been one of my mottos for the year. And then throughout the year, I had another sad moment, and my one of my friends told me, even though the plan may change, the goal should not change. And now you're coming again and saying one of the best ways to fight discouragement is remember your mission and then think about your vision, ensuring that you know how you want to leave the wheel, what your legacy is gonna be, and the values that you're gonna contribute, and how those align with those in that you partner with. And that is just so powerful. I do think that we we get busy in the paperwork. We get busy in in trying to see instant change, trying to solve will hunger. We try to solve it instantly, and we we lose that that clarity, that that hope, and and that focus. So I think that's amazing that those are the strategies that you use, and I'm hopefully I'm gonna remember them and take them into practice. Um, but I mean, but I also feel like those are like the big ones, and then we have like the little ones that we could be using, or that I try to use going to the gym and trying to be stuck away from the screens and just being outside for a bit. That's like one of my big ones, just just disconnecting. Um, because like you said, if there's no money, nothing's happening, and then that just heightens the amount of stress that we're under. And I'm not sure if we if we acknowledge we in the sector, as we said, we don't know what to call the sector, if we in the sector realize the amount of pressure that we work under, but the constant demand for ensuring that we have finances, the demand to ensure that we have um all the systems in place according to which donor, whether the donor is being an individual donor, a company, or a grant organization, wants to have your stuff in place, the the flexibility that we have to continually operate under. Yes, there's some consistencies in it, but it's still what's the word? It's it's not I'm not finding the word, but the constant change that we always have to go under, that we have to have different violations for different things. And as a human, um, we tend to like structure and we tend to like patterns, and it tends and with the constant change, it can also wear on us. So that's something that I'm not sure if. We even acknowledge within this actor when we're doing good. This is true.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah. No, it is true. Certainly in uh in the fundraising side, I've had the experience. I mean, fundraising is high pressure work for all the reasons that you've identified. But you know, I used to work for quite a large women's organization. And you know, we had um programs that were really were life and death programs for women. Um and we had uh we had staff and we had um a lot of things that were that uh were relying on the dollars that were that were raised. And so um uh uh and in some organizations you may not have any um government funding, uh, and so the money that you raise it keeps the doors open, and if you don't raise it, the doors close. And if the doors close, um you know people can be in harm's way, yeah. Right? And and so yes, that's a uh a tremendous amount of pressure to have to carry that. Um at that same organization. I know for uh for many of the staff who who worked directly with uh women who were in crisis, uh there was uh um an emotional, psychological, spiritual impact on the staff doing that work. They call it vicarious trauma. Um and uh so so not all uh causes or or issues uh in in the the social good space um are dealing with those types of issues, but many of them are. Uh and um uh it can it can wear on you uh uh over time to be exposed to um you know extreme levels of of need, of poverty, of harm, uh of abuse, of exclusion, of um whatever. Uh I've heard people talk about that same sense of trauma thinking about climate change.

unknown 24:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

Right? And so um so I I you're not wrong uh in terms of um acknowledging uh that that there are uh impacts on on uh people who work within uh the the social goods space. I would also add to that um uh challenges around compensation, right? Um compensation benefits. Um I would say one of the um uh large differences between uh my experience, um what I see in Canada versus the the Caribbean uh is you know in Canada, um the the charitable sector, you know, it's it's fairly uh regulated, um uh but there has been a real shift to a more professionalized um uh model uh you know where um organizations have um uh have uh paid staff. It would it wouldn't be unusual uh for an organization to have paid staff. Um my my uh observation and experience uh across the the Caribbean, there are organizations, of course, that have paid staff, but that's not necessarily the the most prominent model. Um and uh in issues of of compensation, I think there's still um uh a sense in the region that work in the charitable uh community should be only volunteer. Um and and that and that has uh uh impact on uh the the leadership uh within the charitable uh space, because if you if you can only do it in your spare time because you have to actually earn a living elsewhere, um that has an impact on on how much you're you're able to do. Um and and if organizations don't have the resources to hire uh really skilled, talented, uh, bright um people to be able to advance the mission, um, then you may not be able to go as far as uh as what you need to. I will also say in in the Canadian context, there have been some really important conversations, um, even in organizations where where staff are paid, that they're not paid enough, right? Um so conversations around um, you know, what what what is a living wage? What is what is reasonable? Um why why are we being asked to sacrifice? Uh, and by the way, mostly women, um, and often women of color, why are we being asked to sacrifice um financial stability, uh future, future well-being, access to benefits, pensions, those types of things? Why are we asked to do that when we're doing good? And so those are really important conversations as well, even in a context that um has become more more professionalized in terms of of uh um you know organizational structure and uh and and paid employees as well. So um so that that is uh a conversation that I think is relevant um in in both parts of the world um and is happening in in many parts of the world.

SPEAKER_02 28:15

Yes, as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

That is not skilled, is it skilled work that you're asking for?

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Yeah, yes, it is. Um, and so we need so we need to bring skill to the work, and we need to draw on all the the body of knowledge that there is around um civil society work, um, including fundraising, including governance, including leadership. Um and it's also it's also some responsibility on donors and funders um to start paying for it. Right? And so um uh I think donors are increasingly aware that uh they need to spend money on good people, good talent, good leadership, invest uh on that side so that they can actually um see the the results that they're that they're wanting to see. I think I think um good progress has been made on that. Um again through advocacy from the sector, um uh some really important work about uh redefining what is overhead, um, right? Overhead administration costs and and so forth. Um, for most charities, uh their biggest cost is staff. Um but it's staff that that fulfill mission. Um and so how how are staff not mission funding? Um yeah, so I think I think some good progress is being made there, um, but more work needs to be done. Um one of my one of my big uh takeaways and the research that I've done on affluent philanthropy in the Caribbean is just how important it is for philanthropists and funders uh to invest in the strength and capacity of charities in the in the community sector. Um because they um they can't do it on their own. Um they need to have the strength and capacity to actually do stuff and do it at a scale and a level of impact that that can really help transform uh communities across the region. And so that that's been a challenge that I've put uh to philanthropists um uh that support causes across the Caribbean. Um and uh and I think it's an important message.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

That's definitely an important message, and I I I hope I see the day when that starts to happen, that there's a lot more funding going into building these skills and ensuring, not just building these skills, but ensuring that that admin course should not be a concern of those who are doing good, that they should have those things covered. Um but but you talked about success earlier, and then earlier you talked about your family that was a family of giving and that shaped your the way you view the will. So when we talk about success and the way you view your will, what would you say are some of the high points in doing this way that you do?

SPEAKER_01 31:46

Uh I don't view them so much as high points for myself. I think um, you know, there have been some really great successes that I've been involved in with other people, right? Um true team chaos. So well, you know, when I uh work with a client who wants to really make a transformational gift, um and you know, being being along uh on the path uh and that journey and and uh and working with the charitable partner to make it come to life. And that's deeply meaningful and satisfying to me. Um uh appreciating what that gift is actually gonna make possible, um, you know, whether it's in in someone's individual life or advancing research or access to new uh medical technology, um uh you know, whatever the case may be, um, that's deeply satisfying. Um I worked on a on a fantastic campaign um uh as a fundraiser around housing, affordable housing for for women with mental health issues, um, so that they could have uh a base of stability for themselves and their families. Um, you know, getting that there was a very large development that uh that we were able to make possible. And it was made possible through philanthropy and through government partnerships and through community partnerships. Um and so to start start on one side of the project and get to the other side where people are actually have moved in and are living and are uh experiencing the benefits of the stability that right, those those are the types of highlights that um you know when I think about my my career over the years, um, those are the things that I'm like, wow, I'm I feel so grateful uh to have been a part of that. Like, how cool is that?

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Yes, that is amazing. That is so needed. That's that's so beautiful. And I thank you for your contribution to the world by by seeing that project through. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Well, I don't think we often talk um enough about uh what what philanthropy makes possible. Um uh so you know the root the root word uh for philanthropy, the the root meaning of that word is love. Love of humanity, love of what it is to be human, right? And so when I when I talk about philanthropy, it's both the giving and the volunteering, um it's uh private action for public benefit, right? Um, and I don't think we talk enough about what philanthropy makes possible in our communities, right? If we were to say no more philanthropy, right? What would our communities look like? And I think if we actually sat down to answer that question, we would be astounded and alarmed, right? Because so much happens around us and we take it for granted and we stop seeing it, right? And but when we see it and when we name it and when we talk about how this was made possible because people who were generous stepped forward, generous with their money, generous with their time, with their leadership, with their networks, right? This thing has happened. Um that's pretty cool. It's important to be able to talk about it. Um, one of the things that I found uh in the research that I did uh on giving in the Caribbean, the report of which is on posted on my website, um, is um that there's some cultural distinctives in the Caribbean where people they don't want to talk so much about you know what they're doing, certainly what they're giving, um uh rarely how much they might be giving, um much more you know, want it to be quiet. And and I understand, you know, certainly, certainly in small islands and smaller communities, right? You you're gonna want to be thoughtful. I think there's a religious component around that as well, in terms of humility and and so forth. Um, but one of the downsides when people don't don't talk or aren't open uh about their giving is that it becomes invisible. Right? And I know from my work in the Caribbean that there's a tremendous amount of generosity uh and and um uh and volunteerism that is happening today and has been happening um uh for for decades. Um, you know, philanthropy isn't new. Uh every since humans became into societies, even in small communities, there was philanthropy. So this is not new. Uh it's not a new concept. It's it looks a little different and it's practiced differently in different parts of the world and at different times. Um, but there's a strong culture of giving and sharing and and communal support uh in the in the Caribbean, um, which has uh allowed the Caribbean uh to grow and prosper as much as it has. Um and there's more opportunity, there's more that philanthropy can do. But if we don't talk about it, it becomes invisible, and then we take it for granted, or we don't see it, and we don't realize what it is actually making possible in our very own communities. Um so I think it, I think your podcast is a great example uh of ways to talk about doing good and the good that people are doing, uh, that volunteers are doing, that philanthropists are doing. Um, we need to talk about it more and we need to shine the spotlight on it because that's hopeful. Right? Yes. And it motivates others um to do likewise.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

And that that is so true that it's so easy to take what we have for granted and not understand the work that is that was put in. And I'm gonna thank you, take thank you now for taking that time to explain to us the root of philanthropy and the contribution that it has in the Caribbean. And yes, we need to keep talking about all of uh all who's doing good, not only you, but the others in the region. And a lot of persons still don't understand when I can say I work with nonprofits or I work with NGOs, they still don't even know what that is. So follow us for what is philanthropy. And we are the persons who are on the ground, or we are the persons who are helping those on the ground try to ease the burden, try to ease the strain that so many of us are facing with the harsh political times and economic times that we're facing. And you're right, we do need to take time to talk more about the good that we do. Definitely. That was quite encouraging once again. And so tell me what other steps could be taken to talk about others? What uh when I say talk about others, talk about the good that we're doing, because we already we already said that the NGOs don't necessarily have the funding to have like a big marketing and visibility budget. And then the philanthropists don't want to talk because they don't want to be a target, they don't want to see be seen as a cash cow. Do you think that there's other ways that we could do good, if we could talk about it, feel proud about it, and and encourage others to join?

SPEAKER_01 40:11

Yeah, well, that's the work. That's the work. Um donors can feel like a cash cow when they're treated like cash cows.

unknown 40:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:26

Um, and so so certainly uh, and again, there are different kinds of donors, you know, large institutional funders, government funders, that's uh uh there are different dynamics at at play. Um, but certainly for individual donors and even corporate donors, corporate donors are people donors, right? There's a person who will ultimately be deciding, or a group of people that will be ultimately uh deciding. Um, I think one of the things that I was uh taught uh very early on in my fundraising career, um, which I think is is just as relevant today as it was 30 years ago, um, is just because someone has money doesn't mean they have to give it to you. And so we can't we can't walk through the world with a sense of entitlement about what people owe us, right? And I and I say that in the context of broader conversations around wealth inequality and why some people have have wealth and and others don't. I I get that, um, but but we also have to relate uh to people. Um and and it's a very human um uh it's a very human thing to relate to another person. And if if you feel just in any relationship, if you feel like the person is only there uh to get from you or take from you, right? It it it um uh it's not it's not the positive um exchange, that mutual uh exchange that could otherwise be possible. And so in in good fundraising practice, um that that is really grounded in in genuine relationship uh and connection, right? And what I know now, uh having been a fundraiser, but now also working with philanthropists who are wanting to be generous, um, they want opportunities to do good. Well, guess who has those opportunities? Right? And so when when both sides can approach each other uh with with respect and with regard, um really wonderful things can happen. But it starts with conversation, um, and it starts with building uh some relationship because for for charities and social good organizations, um, you are a mechanism to help philanthropists fulfill uh their philanthropic aspirations.

unknown 43:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Right? Um, so it's not like trying to extract money from people who don't want, right? That's a very forceful uh negative um lens to think about um how social good gets funded.

SPEAKER_03 43:48

Right?

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Whereas if you view it as, you know, we're partners in mission, right? What we're doing, it seems to be that that's also important to you, right? So how where can we line up? Um where can we line up so that we can accomplish some really great things together? Right? That that's good fundraising practice. Right. And it's also um uh you know it it some of those nuances also come from experience over time. Um but what the best fundraisers in the world, and when I say in the world, I don't mean just in the in the US uh or in Canada or in the but uh around the world, the best fundraisers are people that have a genuine love for other people, a curiosity about other people, um, so that they can make those deep connections between what what matters uh to those people and and where the connection is with their work, right? And make those alignments. I think that's really uh I think it's really important. Um we're not there to serve donors, um, right? Donors and philanthropists, it shouldn't be um, you know, we're in the business of making them happy, right? No, it's about alignment, right? It's about these are these are partners with us in this work. And if you approach it through that lens, it just it changes the whole dynamic, um, and and and and is inspiring and hopeful, uh, which is where we started this conversation. Yes, right? What are we gonna do together? It's not, you know, give us, give me your money so we can do our thing over here. Yes. It's what can we do together, which also means as organizations are shaping their their vision, um, that they consult, that they hear from their communities uh and from their donors and perspective donors about you know what's possible, what can we do together?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Right, yeah, that definitely gives you hope when you feel like the other person is on the same page as you and they're not using you and they want to do good for a community. So, yeah, that is definitely true.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

Also, about accountability. Um, by the way, that's the other uh piece of it. So when you receive funding uh or a charitable donation from a donor, philanthropist, funder, wherever it's coming from, you have to fulfill what you've committed to doing. Um you know, it's not just, oh, thanks, bye, right? Um, because if they're your partners in mission, they're gonna care. They're gonna care about progress. Um, quite a quite apart from the fact that you've made an agreement. Um, and if you can't fulfill uh an agreement, then that raises a whole other bunch of questions about uh about you know how you run your business, right? If you're not if you're not standing by your word and your commitments. Um we uh have often said in in fundraising, uh a giver doesn't become a donor until they've given two or three times, right? So you can get lucky getting that one gift, but if you don't do well by it, and then by the relationship, you're not gonna get a next gift.

SPEAKER_00 47:36

Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

So so what you want to grow over time is donors who are with you for the long term, right? And that doesn't happen by accident. Um, it it requires, you know, really engaging them as partners in in your work, um, and requires some goodwill on their part uh as well. Um, but that that makes the the the greatest potential for transformation.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

It sounds like to be a good Fun Risa, you need to be an extrovert.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

Ah well that's a topic, that's a whole topic for another podcast because I'm not an extrovert. Um, no, you need you need to have an interest in people.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

In people.

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Um and sometimes sometimes and no no slag against the extroverts, but sometimes, you know, the the people who love to talk so much and shake hands and be social, there's a there's an aspect of that that of course you need to do, but what are you not doing when you're doing that?

SPEAKER_00 48:46

Okay, right?

SPEAKER_01 48:47

You're not listening. You're not listening and uh engaging in conversation, uh, finding out what matters to other people. Um and yeah, so so that there's room for everyone in fundraising, um but uh but it it's not the kind of the stereotypical um life of the party uh person that will necessarily um uh you know be the most effective because it's not it's those are very shallow um things. Um you know, you want to get to the heart of the matter because these are really big issues that we're working on.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Because you want to build come you want to build that commitment to the very sun, you want to show that you care about the person, you want to have accountability, showing that you can actually deliver the word and most of all care for the same issue, the same social issue that you'll want to address. Those are three tips for fundraisers who are listening to common sense that's doing good. But um, Sharif, we start off talking about your your highlights of when you feel deep satisfaction and you talked about the shelter that you have raised funds for for women who were experiencing mental health um challenges. But how do you celebrate your wins? When this happens, when we we sign on the dotted line, or when we see that the amount of money is raised that is needed, do we do we have a glass of wine? Do we what do we do to celebrate our wins?

SPEAKER_01 50:23

I think it it it depends on it depends on the win, but I I like your question because I think we we do need to acknowledge um our successes and and our progress, which can sometimes be incremental. Uh it's not always a slam dunk, um, but taking taking the moment, sharing it um with with others, I think um uh you know, sharing it with those who have also helped make it possible, I think is really powerful because um, you know, just as it's uh inspiring for us, it can be inspiring for them as well and get them ready for the next thing. Because the work is never done, right?

SPEAKER_00 51:08

And so yeah. It's not. So tell me, what is the next thing you're planning to conquer?

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Um uh I don't know about conquering, um, but I have recently been um involved in a in a new program that is actually helping to train people who advise philanthropists. We look at uh trends in giving, certainly uh in um uh in North America, uh the role of advisors to people who want to be generous. Uh I think there's increasing demand and opportunity uh there. Um, but it's important that for people doing that work that they have a really good baseline about how to do it well for the sake of uh of donors and philanthropists, uh, but also for the sake of community. So as a uh an advisor in in philanthropy, I always feel that I have split accountabilities, right? I'm accountable to my clients, um, of course, because they've engaged me, they hired me, and they have certain objectives, and I need to be accountable to the work that I've said, but I also need to be accountable to community. And that sense of accountability is in part uh why a philanthropist might hire an advisor because they may not understand community, um, or sometimes they think they do, but they don't. And so some of the choices that they may make could actually make a charity's work harder or you know, in extreme circumstances, cause harm or unintended consequences. Um and so uh, you know, as I as I work with generous people and families, um, I always have the the community uh in mind as much as I have the clients in mind, um, so that uh you know I'm fulfilling a duty of care, a split duty of care. Um and so this new program I think will be a really uh interesting addition uh to where people can get uh good education, training, um, skills development about how to do that work well. And then maybe I'll just end uh with a word about education, uh, education and learning and training. There is a tremendous amount of uh literature, research, uh information available about um work in the nonprofit, civil society, social goods space. Um, and I think it's incumbent, I think we have a responsibility, those of us who work in the space, to learn our craft and take whatever opportunities we can take, whether it's online or taking advantage of workshops that are offered. It's incredibly important. It demonstrates commitment uh to the sector, and we need people to do that to advance the sector, to grow it, to advance thought leadership and so forth. I think it's incredibly important, especially in particular in the Caribbean. Um, when you think of the challenges that the region faces, it truly needs the best and brightest to be deeply committed to to the sector and moving it forward, uh, shaping how the sector is understood, how it's communicated, uh, how it is strengthened. Um that needs to come from within for that to be uh developed. Um there there are both training opportunities available, there are also academic programs uh available, um postgraduate uh certificates, uh graduate degrees, doctoral degrees, um which I know uh within the within the Caribbean region that that's a huge commitment uh for people to even think uh uh you know about the accessing those opportunities, but uh but they're there. Um and uh and there are people that that do it and find tremendous meaning and satisfaction um uh doing that and are able to then translate uh that work back in the region to really help make things better. So um so with my academic hat on, I just uh encourage people to think about it because it it can be a wonderful career, uh a meaningful career, a very purposeful thing to do with one's life. Um and and that can come with professional development and learning and growth and all those other uh really wonderful things. So I just want to to highlight that uh as something for your listeners to have on their radar.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

Definitely. I I mean I'm just like you read you read my script because I was gonna end with advice for aspiring to goodness, and your advice is to get the education, the free education, or the paid education as well. And I want to thank you for that advice. Um, what I did not say at the start of the podcast is that I reached out to Shari Lynn earlier this year, and she took the time to speak into my life and my professional development, and now she's doing the same for us again, encouraging us to do good and be educated about how we're gonna do good so that we won't do harm and we will have the best practices in the field. So I just want to thank you once again, Shari Lynn, for taking the time to share with us a bit about your story, your journey into doing good from your family to your career in fundraising, to where you are now in philanthropy and your research that you've done in the Caribbean, and the importance of even when we're celebrating our wins, to remember that it's a team effort because change happens in community, and not to lose that hope, to have that hope that change will happen, and to keep the hope by staying focused on what our mission and our vision and our values are in doing good in our corner of the wheel, wherever it may be. Wherever it may be. Wherever it may be.